Swiss Official ICAO Chart Overlay

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Swiss Official ICAO Chart Overlay

Author	Message
johnichio	j johnichio posted 11/14/2022 5:42:28 PM Topic Details Share Topic
j Group: Forum Members Posts: 13, Visits: 2	In Switzerland, ATC and other pilots, strongly prefer to only ever use names of places that are listed on the official ICAO chart. SkyDemon has a couple of issues: 1) There are places listed in SkyDemon that are not on the ICAO chart. 2) There are places on the ICAO chart _not_ listed on SkyDemon. The first is a larger problem, since a pilot may be tempted to report their position using a name not listed on the ICAO chart, and the ATC or other pilots in the area would have no idea. What kinds of workarounds are available to alleviate this issue?
	Reply Like 6
Tim Dawson	Tim Dawson posted 11/15/2022 10:39:45 AM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 8.2K, Visits: 9.8K	Use official VRPs and proper aviation designated points when reporting your position. You'll find that no two charts are alike in their choice of basemap, and since towns and cities are not aeronautical data, consistency between two charts is not possible in this aspect, especially when vector charts like SkyDemon are infinitely zoomable so places will appear and disappear depending on zoom level.
	Reply Like 3
johnichio	j johnichio posted 11/16/2022 6:51:04 AM Post Details Share Post
j Group: Forum Members Posts: 13, Visits: 2	Thanks Tim. What's a "proper aviation designated point" in this context, and how do I quickly find those in SD? The Switzerland ICAO chart is the official chart and all the points named on there are acceptable. The way ForeFlight solves this is simply by giving the option to simply use the ICAO chart as a basemap. Sure it's not vector, but it'll do when it comes to choosing points to report and understanding what ATC is asking you to do.
	Reply Like 3
Tim Dawson	Tim Dawson posted 11/16/2022 10:10:06 AM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 8.2K, Visits: 9.8K	In SkyDemon they're referred to as Airways Reporting Points, but that encompasses all five-letter designated points defined in ENR 4.4. We do not have plans to include paper charts in SkyDemon. They are static and out of date for most of the year.
	Reply Like 6
landrus	l landrus posted 7/19/2024 2:52:47 PM Post Details Share Post
l Group: Forum Members Posts: 6, Visits: 1	+x Tim Dawson - 11/16/2022 10:10:06 AM In SkyDemon they're referred to as Airways Reporting Points, but that encompasses all five-letter designated points defined in ENR 4.4. We do not have plans to include paper charts in SkyDemon. They are static and out of date for most of the year. The official 1:500.000 is updated once a year and it is not outdated most of the year. The issue with the reporting points is real in Switzerland. You could probably overlay it georeferenced, like you do for the VAC charts and airfield charts. I would pay money for this.
	Reply Like 2
grahamb	grahamb posted 7/19/2024 4:21:56 PM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 624, Visits: 30K	+x landrus - 7/19/2024 2:52:47 PM +x Tim Dawson - 11/16/2022 10:10:06 AM In SkyDemon they're referred to as Airways Reporting Points, but that encompasses all five-letter designated points defined in ENR 4.4. We do not have plans to include paper charts in SkyDemon. They are static and out of date for most of the year. The official 1:500.000 is updated once a year and it is not outdated most of the year. The issue with the reporting points is real in Switzerland. You could probably overlay it georeferenced, like you do for the VAC charts and airfield charts. I would pay money for this. Perhaps you could crowdsource a list of the user waypoints for all of the preferred towns and share that amongst the Swiss pilot community through your local organisations and clubs. Tim might have to develop a means of bulk importing waypoints, though. Edited 7/19/2024 6:24:13 PM by grahamb
	Reply Like 3
landrus	l landrus posted 8/20/2024 11:46:55 AM Post Details Share Post
l Group: Forum Members Posts: 6, Visits: 1	+x grahamb - 7/19/2024 4:21:56 PM +x landrus - 7/19/2024 2:52:47 PM +x Tim Dawson - 11/16/2022 10:10:06 AM In SkyDemon they're referred to as Airways Reporting Points, but that encompasses all five-letter designated points defined in ENR 4.4. We do not have plans to include paper charts in SkyDemon. They are static and out of date for most of the year. The official 1:500.000 is updated once a year and it is not outdated most of the year. The issue with the reporting points is real in Switzerland. You could probably overlay it georeferenced, like you do for the VAC charts and airfield charts. I would pay money for this. Perhaps you could crowdsource a list of the user waypoints for all of the preferred towns and share that amongst the Swiss pilot community through your local organisations and clubs. Tim might have to develop a means of bulk importing waypoints, though. Would it be possible to add a feature to remove an existing point in the basemap? That would solve my issue. It's manual, but I don't have an issue with doing that manually. Currently, I add all the missing points as user points and that works beautifully, as the web version of the swiss ICAO map allows you to find the WGS 84 location. The remaining issue is the "wrong" existing points from the basemap. If I would be able to remove them, that would be all I am asking for.
	Reply Like 4
Tim Dawson	Tim Dawson posted 8/21/2024 9:15:37 AM Post Details Share Post
Group: Forum Members Posts: 8.2K, Visits: 9.8K	What is an example of a wrong point in our map? If there is anything incorrect in our maps, we fix it.
	Reply Like 2
paalia	p paalia posted 7 hours ago Post Details Share Post
p Group: Forum Members Posts: 1, Visits: 0	+x Tim Dawson - 8/21/2024 9:15:37 AM What is an example of a wrong point in our map? If there is anything incorrect in our maps, we fix it. I'm necroing this thread, because I found no more recent discussion of this topic. The chart for Switzerland is really pretty bad in comparison to our ICAO chart. To give some examples: - If you look at Zurich area, you guys have 'Zurich (Kreis 9) on your chart. I have no idea where you got that from, but Bremgarten just west of that is missing from your charts. - If you look further south along the lake, north of LSPV, ICAO chart references Pfaeffikon, but your charts reference Freienbach. - West of that, near Unteraegeri, ICAO chart references Menzingen, which is completely missing from your charts - West of Unteraegeri, you find Zug. But Baar and Cham are totally missing, though they are ICAO reference points To be frank, there's too many of these to list exhaustively. And it's very frustrating because I know certainly ICAO data is public information, and they are important references for communication in Switzerland. It also seems that since this discussion 1.5 years ago, nothing has been worked on here?
	Reply Like 0